This year marks the 30th anniversary of Just the Tonic and 20 years of Just the Tonic at Edinburgh Fringe.
Based in Edinburgh, the company has grown from humble beginnings as a Sunday night club into one of the largest comedy producers in the UK, with a huge presence at the Fringe spread over 5 venues.
At a time when the Fringe is becoming more and more expensive for both performers and the public, Just the Tonic boasts one of the most affordable programmes of the festival.
As well as low ticket prices and a Pay What You Want model, there are shows such as the Big Value Comedy Show, Headliners for £10, Comedy in the Dark, Best of Cabaret and All Stars Burlesque where you can see several performers and big names on the same bill.
We chat with Darrell Martin, Just The Tonic’s founder.
You’re celebrating 20 years of Just The Tonic at Edinburgh Fringe. How did it all start?
It started with me as an unemployable graduate in my 20s. I started the Sunday night comedy club in Nottingham.
When I first started I lost a lot of money – I’d used £300 I’d saved from teaching abroad- but then figured out I could possibly make a living out of it and I couldn’t believe my luck, to be honest.
It started as me working in stand-up, but then I got blocked into the promoter’s hat, seen as a promoter rather than a stand-up, and it grew from that.
How do you think comedy has changed during that time? Has it changed for the better?
‘Better’ depends on what you think, really. It’s become a big business, and it’s become a career thing for people.
When I started, I might have been young and naive, but it seemed that everyone were just happy they could do comedy to earn a living.
There were a lot more characters. It wasn’t something that was a career option. 30 years ago when I started in Nottingham, I didn’t know how to get into it, started a club and then found my way.
Now, people are doing arenas. It seems like it is more of a stepping stone into other things. People don’t want to be pure stand-up anymore.
That’s good in some respects, but you’ve lost the nutty craziness of it all. Everyone seems a lot more sensible.
There’s a lot less drinking in the bar!
I’m not saying people involved in comedy aren’t creative, but there’s now courses on how to do it and everyone thinks they can.
If your act is good enough, people will come to see it wherever it is.
Let’s talk about your venues in Edinburgh. What are they like, and do you think there’s an ideal type of space for comedy?
If your act is good enough, people will come to see it wherever it is.
For me, the perfect environment is totally dark, really low ceiling, really up close to the comedian, so the crowd’s involved. I’d say about 200-300 capacity, good sightlines with the act visible from everywhere.
If you’re watching a show and you feel like you’re involved, it feels a bit more dangerous, like something is about to happen.
We were running shows at the Grassmarket Community Project, a new building that’s all white as you go in. It felt a bit clinical, not like a place where anything could happen.
Most of our venues are dark, with the right atmosphere. We use the Charteris Centre, a 110 capacity room there, which we drape in black so it feels like you’re in an underground, dingy venue.
We’ve got The Caves under the arches of South Bridge. It’s a web of corridors and alleyways to get in. Going to the venues themselves is an experience. Sitting in a dark cellar watching a show.
When they were built originally, there was no waterproofing, but they’re dry now!
Do you have a favourite of your Edinburgh venues?
Probably The Caves. It’s where we’ve been the longest. It feels to me like the essence of the Fringe. In the Old Town, along Cowgate, it feels raw down there. All the venues are different and unique.
I’d compare that to George Square, where it feels like you could be anywhere with nice tents and nice buildings. That’s not the Fringe that I fell in love with. I prefer where we are.
How has the Fringe in general changed in the 20 years you’ve bee there?
The first big change was the Gilded Balloon building burning down on Cowgate.
Then it got bigger at the top end, the high-end shows, and the Free Fringe expanded.
When I first came up in 1995, I was flyering for Sean Lock and doing tech for the show. Then I came back in 1999 and I was compering a show called Big Value at the Cafe Royale.
It was expensive even then, out of most people’s grasp. The Free Fringe has democratised it a bit more. It means anyone can come up, but it also gives a load of performers the illusion that everyone’s got the right to go to the Fringe.
People should be able to make money out of it and do well out of it. It always was expensive to put on a show. It’s now got so big. The quality threshold used to be ‘make sure your show is good, unless you’ve got loads of money to lose”.
At the Free Fringe, that threshold isn’t always there It’s a good thing, but there’s no end to it. There’s a danger that too much free stuff devalues everything else.
It hasn’t happened at Edinburgh yet, but it could. And if you lose the big shows because they sell less tickets, you have a funding problem.
There are also a lot more late night shows. I think there are too many now.
The Edinburgh Fringe isn’t just about watching the show. It’s about being in Edinburgh.
Do you have any big successes that have come through Just The Tonic? Who are you most proud of?
For me as an invididual, when I took over the Cafe Royal, in about 2004, I inherited the Big Value Show. I took it over so I could programme the venues, and that’s how Just The Tonic started at the Fringe.
I picked lots of comics I’d been with on the circuit and Will Hodgson was on, doing a solo show in what was the Hollywood Tavern. An amazing show, that eventually won a newcomer award, but he had no confidence in it.
A real rags to riches story of someone I helped promote and get an audience for this very unusual performer who was a bit punk, cross-dressing and into Care Bears. The Guardian came in, then the judges from the Comedy Awards.
So we got into this very middle-class world and doors were opened for us.
What do you think about digital captures of comedy?
During the lockdown I did get involved in livestream stuff, selling tickets for big acts with loads of interest. We all thought ‘this is the new normal’ but it turned out it wasn’t.
It was the temporary normal. As soon as the pubs opened up again my attendance figures dropped right down, so it wasn’t worth doing. I do have cameras in my Nottingham club, but I don’t think it’s worth bothering with.
The Edinburgh Fringe isn’t just about watching the show. It’s about being in Edinburgh. I don’t think someone sitting on their sofa in some state in America watching a show streamed in gives you any idea what it’s like being here.
You could be watching a show from anywhere. The EdFringe for me isn’t individual shows you see. It’s the whole buzz when the city goes mental and adults are allowed to do whatever they want for a month!
Streaming stuff at EdFringe is underselling the experience, that’s my opinion. It’s a real case of ‘you’ve got to be there’.
Just The Tonic’s Edinburgh Fringe programme of over 200 shows can be found here.